Pope Francis in Interview says "Being the pope is not an easy job" and Reveals his Wish for the Future
Pope Francis has been granting several interviews with news agencies from around the world in honor of his 10th anniversary as pontiff. This latest interview was released on March 12th from the Italian Il Fatto Quotidiano.
The interviewer is Francesco Antonio Grana with whom the pope speaks on various issues including his future hopes. Below are some key excerpts (for the full interview see the link at the bottom):
Pope Francis:
Things are much simpler than what they appear to be from the outside. It’s good that between brethren there is the courage to say things directly to each others faces, “wearing trousers” {being a responsible man}, not encouraging the gossip that kills, that can kill anything. Also the first disciples of Jesus didn’t see everything in the same way and there were twelve of them, a small group. The church isn’t an orchestra where everyone plays the same part, but each person has their own score, and it’s exactly this that creates the harmony. We have to strive for unity which doesn’t mean uniformity. We are all brethren! We have to have the courage to believe in our own ideas, the courage to say them out loud, but then we must find ourselves around the same table.
In Bold Interviewer Grana: What has made you suffer the most?
The corruption. I’m not speaking about only financial corruption, inside and outside of the Vatican, I’m talking about the corruption of the heart. The corruption is a scandal. In Naples, in 2015, I said it reeked. Yes, reeked. The corruption putrefies the soul. It is necessary to distinguish the sin from the corruption. We are all sinners, all of us! Also the pope has to confess every 15 days. But we don’t have to descend from sin into corruption. Never! In the Church, like in politics and in society in general, we have to always be aware of the serious danger of corruption. It is very difficult for someone corrupted to turn back: a bribe today and another tomorrow....
The corruption within the Church has also manifested itself in pedophilia amongst its people.
You can credit Benedict XVI with reporting publicly on this enormous scandal when he was still cardinal. Everyone remembers his words: “How much filth there is in the church, especially among those who, in the priesthood, are supposed to belong totally to Him (Christ),” He didn’t just have the great courage to report all of this when they still weren’t talking about it much, when there still wasn’t the full awareness of this abomination, but, both as cardinal, and then as pope, he battled with all of his strength against the conspiracy of silence and the cover-up that for decades has shielded those in the church that commit this abuse. I’m following in his footsteps. Regarding this point, it’s necessary to be very clear: if in the Church even a single case of abuse is uncovered, that represents in itself a monstrosity, such a case will be treated extremely seriously.
Importantly there was the worldwide summit on pedophilia within the clergy (Meeting on the Protection of Minors in the Church) in February 2019 and all the reforms that came from it.
Something really struck me from that summit. I asked the presidents of the episcopal conferences of all the world to prepare themselves for the meeting by listening to the victims. Many of them told me that they had never herd directly from the victims before that point and that they found themselves crying with them: “the gift of tears”. This, I believe, was the most important and radical change of mentality in the Church to confront the abuse: to start by listening to the victims. For a pastor it’s fundamental. Benedict XVI had started to listen to the victims during his international travels. This sharing of thoughts, it needs to start here. In the Church there is no place for those who stain themselves with the sin of this abominable sin against God and against man. However, pedophilia is also a crime that has to be punished through justice. Covering up the abuse is a routine practice. Consider that 40 per cent of cases of abuse happen within the family and in the local community and all of this is covered up. A habit that the Church had until the Boston scandal in 2002. At that moment, the Church realised that it couldn’t cover up anymore the pedophilia by its priests. However, in the family, and in the world of sport, pedophilia still exists. Another point that I would like to highlight is the problem of child pornography. Where does it happen? Who are those that have the freedom to do this without answering to authority? It’s a horrible thing because child pornography involves children in the making of the videos.
What do you wish for the future?
Peace. Peace in war torn Ukraine and in all the other countries that are suffering from the horrors of war that is always a loss for everyone, for everyone. The war is cruel and absurd. It is a business that doesn’t understand crises, not even during the pandemic: the weapons factory. To strive for peace means not investing in these “factories of death”. It makes me suffer to think that if we didn’t make weapons for a year, all the hunger in the world would end because the weapons and arms industry is the biggest on the planet. December 8, last year, in the Piazza di Spagna, Rome, I cried thinking about what the Ukrainians are going through. A year has already passed since the war started in Ukraine. In February I was in Africa, in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and in South Sudan, and I saw the horrors of conflict in those two countries where people were being mutilated. Something that made me suffer a lot is the globalisation of indifference, the turning a blind eye and saying: “Why should I care? It doesn’t interest me! It’s not my problem!” When they asked Senator for Life, Lilliana Segre, holocaust survivor, which word to write on platform 21 at Milan station, where the trains departed for the nazi concentration camps, she didn’t hesitate, saying: “Indifference”. Nobody had thought about that word. It makes you reflect because that massacre of millions of people occurred through the indifference and cowardliness of many who preferred to look the other way and say: “Why should I care?”
Recently, I read a quote from the senator reminding us that you don’t go to Auschwitz for an outing but you pay homage so as not to forget about the holocaust. This struck me hard because it is really this that I felt in my heart when I went to Auschwitz in 2016, and I didn’t want to make a speech in the same way that my two predecessors had. I wanted to pray alone in silence.
What do you wish for the church?
The Church needs to venture out into the world, it needs to be among the people. Take for example Don Tonino Bello, a great Apulian bishop who walked amongst his people and fought with all his strength for peace. A man not recognised during his time because he was too far ahead. Now we appreciate who he was. A prophet! He is already venerable and on his way to beatification. Recently, they used in a song his celebrated quote: “We are each of us angels with only one wing, and we can only fly by embracing one another.” No-one can save themselves alone. We saw this also with the pandemic. I dream of a Church without clericalism...A priest, a bishop or a cardinal who becomes ill through clericalism does a lot of damage to the Church. It’s a contagious disease. Even worse are the clericalised lay people: they are a nuisance in the Church. Lay people should be lay people.
And, in the end, what do you wish for your future?
That the Lord is merciful with me. Being the pope is not an easy job. Nobody has studied before doing this. However the Lord knows this. It happened also with Saint Peter. He was quietly fishing and one day Jesus chose him because he was becoming a “fisher of men”. However, also Peter fell. He denied knowing the very person who he had seen day and night with the Lord, who had eaten with Him, who he had heard preach and who he had seen perform miracles: “I don’t know that man!” How is that possible? But Jesus, after the resurrection, chose him again. That is the mercy of the Lord towards us. Also towards the pope. “‘Servus inutilis sum’. I’m a useless servant”, as wrote Saint Paul VI in his “Thoughts on Death”. A beautifully written piece that above all invites priests to read and meditate.
Thank you Your Holiness
Thanks to you and your colleagues for the work that you do. I would like to say something to the readers of ilfattoquotidiano.it: Don’t ever lose hope! Even if bad things happen, even if you have had a bad experience with someone from the Church, don’t let it condition you. The Lord is always waiting for you with open arms. I hope you succeed in experiencing it within your lives like I have within mine many times. The Lord has always been beside me, above all in the darkest moments. He is always there. Don’t ever forget that! He takes us gently into his arms and he picks us up when we fall. The important thing, in fact, is not to not fall, but not to stay fallen. The Lord forgives us always. The pope loves you and is praying for you. Whoever is praying, I ask them to pray for me. To those that don’t pray, at least send me good vibes, I need them. Thank you!
Pope Francis:
Things are much simpler than what they appear to be from the outside. It’s good that between brethren there is the courage to say things directly to each others faces, “wearing trousers” {being a responsible man}, not encouraging the gossip that kills, that can kill anything. Also the first disciples of Jesus didn’t see everything in the same way and there were twelve of them, a small group. The church isn’t an orchestra where everyone plays the same part, but each person has their own score, and it’s exactly this that creates the harmony. We have to strive for unity which doesn’t mean uniformity. We are all brethren! We have to have the courage to believe in our own ideas, the courage to say them out loud, but then we must find ourselves around the same table.
In Bold Interviewer Grana: What has made you suffer the most?
The corruption. I’m not speaking about only financial corruption, inside and outside of the Vatican, I’m talking about the corruption of the heart. The corruption is a scandal. In Naples, in 2015, I said it reeked. Yes, reeked. The corruption putrefies the soul. It is necessary to distinguish the sin from the corruption. We are all sinners, all of us! Also the pope has to confess every 15 days. But we don’t have to descend from sin into corruption. Never! In the Church, like in politics and in society in general, we have to always be aware of the serious danger of corruption. It is very difficult for someone corrupted to turn back: a bribe today and another tomorrow....
The corruption within the Church has also manifested itself in pedophilia amongst its people.
You can credit Benedict XVI with reporting publicly on this enormous scandal when he was still cardinal. Everyone remembers his words: “How much filth there is in the church, especially among those who, in the priesthood, are supposed to belong totally to Him (Christ),” He didn’t just have the great courage to report all of this when they still weren’t talking about it much, when there still wasn’t the full awareness of this abomination, but, both as cardinal, and then as pope, he battled with all of his strength against the conspiracy of silence and the cover-up that for decades has shielded those in the church that commit this abuse. I’m following in his footsteps. Regarding this point, it’s necessary to be very clear: if in the Church even a single case of abuse is uncovered, that represents in itself a monstrosity, such a case will be treated extremely seriously.
Importantly there was the worldwide summit on pedophilia within the clergy (Meeting on the Protection of Minors in the Church) in February 2019 and all the reforms that came from it.
Something really struck me from that summit. I asked the presidents of the episcopal conferences of all the world to prepare themselves for the meeting by listening to the victims. Many of them told me that they had never herd directly from the victims before that point and that they found themselves crying with them: “the gift of tears”. This, I believe, was the most important and radical change of mentality in the Church to confront the abuse: to start by listening to the victims. For a pastor it’s fundamental. Benedict XVI had started to listen to the victims during his international travels. This sharing of thoughts, it needs to start here. In the Church there is no place for those who stain themselves with the sin of this abominable sin against God and against man. However, pedophilia is also a crime that has to be punished through justice. Covering up the abuse is a routine practice. Consider that 40 per cent of cases of abuse happen within the family and in the local community and all of this is covered up. A habit that the Church had until the Boston scandal in 2002. At that moment, the Church realised that it couldn’t cover up anymore the pedophilia by its priests. However, in the family, and in the world of sport, pedophilia still exists. Another point that I would like to highlight is the problem of child pornography. Where does it happen? Who are those that have the freedom to do this without answering to authority? It’s a horrible thing because child pornography involves children in the making of the videos.
What do you wish for the future?
Peace. Peace in war torn Ukraine and in all the other countries that are suffering from the horrors of war that is always a loss for everyone, for everyone. The war is cruel and absurd. It is a business that doesn’t understand crises, not even during the pandemic: the weapons factory. To strive for peace means not investing in these “factories of death”. It makes me suffer to think that if we didn’t make weapons for a year, all the hunger in the world would end because the weapons and arms industry is the biggest on the planet. December 8, last year, in the Piazza di Spagna, Rome, I cried thinking about what the Ukrainians are going through. A year has already passed since the war started in Ukraine. In February I was in Africa, in the Democratic Republic of the Congo and in South Sudan, and I saw the horrors of conflict in those two countries where people were being mutilated. Something that made me suffer a lot is the globalisation of indifference, the turning a blind eye and saying: “Why should I care? It doesn’t interest me! It’s not my problem!” When they asked Senator for Life, Lilliana Segre, holocaust survivor, which word to write on platform 21 at Milan station, where the trains departed for the nazi concentration camps, she didn’t hesitate, saying: “Indifference”. Nobody had thought about that word. It makes you reflect because that massacre of millions of people occurred through the indifference and cowardliness of many who preferred to look the other way and say: “Why should I care?”
Recently, I read a quote from the senator reminding us that you don’t go to Auschwitz for an outing but you pay homage so as not to forget about the holocaust. This struck me hard because it is really this that I felt in my heart when I went to Auschwitz in 2016, and I didn’t want to make a speech in the same way that my two predecessors had. I wanted to pray alone in silence.
What do you wish for the church?
The Church needs to venture out into the world, it needs to be among the people. Take for example Don Tonino Bello, a great Apulian bishop who walked amongst his people and fought with all his strength for peace. A man not recognised during his time because he was too far ahead. Now we appreciate who he was. A prophet! He is already venerable and on his way to beatification. Recently, they used in a song his celebrated quote: “We are each of us angels with only one wing, and we can only fly by embracing one another.” No-one can save themselves alone. We saw this also with the pandemic. I dream of a Church without clericalism...A priest, a bishop or a cardinal who becomes ill through clericalism does a lot of damage to the Church. It’s a contagious disease. Even worse are the clericalised lay people: they are a nuisance in the Church. Lay people should be lay people.
And, in the end, what do you wish for your future?
That the Lord is merciful with me. Being the pope is not an easy job. Nobody has studied before doing this. However the Lord knows this. It happened also with Saint Peter. He was quietly fishing and one day Jesus chose him because he was becoming a “fisher of men”. However, also Peter fell. He denied knowing the very person who he had seen day and night with the Lord, who had eaten with Him, who he had heard preach and who he had seen perform miracles: “I don’t know that man!” How is that possible? But Jesus, after the resurrection, chose him again. That is the mercy of the Lord towards us. Also towards the pope. “‘Servus inutilis sum’. I’m a useless servant”, as wrote Saint Paul VI in his “Thoughts on Death”. A beautifully written piece that above all invites priests to read and meditate.
Thank you Your Holiness
Thanks to you and your colleagues for the work that you do. I would like to say something to the readers of ilfattoquotidiano.it: Don’t ever lose hope! Even if bad things happen, even if you have had a bad experience with someone from the Church, don’t let it condition you. The Lord is always waiting for you with open arms. I hope you succeed in experiencing it within your lives like I have within mine many times. The Lord has always been beside me, above all in the darkest moments. He is always there. Don’t ever forget that! He takes us gently into his arms and he picks us up when we fall. The important thing, in fact, is not to not fall, but not to stay fallen. The Lord forgives us always. The pope loves you and is praying for you. Whoever is praying, I ask them to pray for me. To those that don’t pray, at least send me good vibes, I need them. Thank you!
Source: https://www.ilfattoquotidiano.it/2023/03/12/esclusivo-intervista-a-papa-francesco-corruzione-lo-scandalo/7093636/ - Author: Francesco Antonio Grana – English version by Alexander Bennett
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