VIS REPORT: COMMUNIQUE CONCERNING THE SOCIETY OF ST. PIUS X (IMAGE SOURCE: RADIOVATICANA)Vatican City, 16 March 2012 (VIS) - Given below is the text of a communique relating to the Society of St. Pius X, released this morning by the Holy See Press Office.
"During the meeting of 14 September 2011 between Cardinal William Levada, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and president of the Pontifical Commission 'Ecclesia Dei', and Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior general of the Society of St. Pius X, the latter was presented with a Doctrinal Preamble, accompanied by a Preliminary Note, as a fundamental basis for achieving full reconciliation with the Apostolic See. This defined certain doctrinal principles and criteria for the interpretation Catholic doctrine, which are necessary to ensure faithfulness to the Church Magisterium and 'sentire cum Ecclesia'.
"The response of the Society of St. Pius X to the aforesaid Doctrinal Preamble, which arrived in January 2012, was examined by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith before being submitted to the Holy Father for his judgement. Pursuant to the decision made by Pope Benedict XVI, Bishop Fellay was, in a letter delivered today, informed of the evaluation of his response. The letter states that the position he expressed is not sufficient to overcome the doctrinal problems which lie at the foundation of the rift between the Holy See and the Society of St. Pius X.
"At the end of today's meeting, moved by concern to avoid an ecclesial rupture of painful and incalculable consequences, the superior general of the Society of St. Pius X was invited to clarify his position in order to be able to heal the existing rift, as is the desire of Pope Benedict XVI".
CONGREGATION FOR THE DOCTRINE OF THE FAITH HAS A NEW DOMAIN: WWW.DOCTRINAFIDEI.VA
Vatican City, 16 March 2012 (VIS) - The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has opened a new domain (www.doctrinafidei.va) within the official website of the Holy See. In this way, the congregation hopes to facilitate the consultation of its documents which, having the express approbation of the Holy Father, participate in his ordinary Magisterium as the Peter's Successor. Attentive reception of these texts is important for all members of the faithful and in particular for those who are engaged in theological and pastoral work.
The major documents are available in eight languages: Latin, French, English, Italian, Portuguese, Spanish, German and Polish. Certain documents are also available in Hungarian, Slovak, Czech, and Dutch. There is a general list of all the texts organised chronologically, and three subgroups of these texts, divided into doctrinal, disciplinary and sacramental documents.
The new domain also presents information on the Congregation's series "Documenti e Studi", which are individual printed volumes presenting a major document of the Congregation together with commentaries by noted theologians. There is also a description of the volumes containing the proceedings of various symposia organised by the Congregation in recent years, as well as speeches and other contributions by cardinal prefects.
A communique by the congregation published this morning explains how "wider distribution of the teaching of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is necessary in today's world. The documents of the congregation which have been published since the time of Vatican Council II ... deal with significant questions for the life and mission of the Church and give important doctrinal responses to the challenges of our times. ... The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is convinced that the enhanced availability of these documents will be of significant value in communicating the teaching of the Church to people throughout the world".
The old domain address of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith remains active within the official website of the Holy See.
AUDIENCES
Vatican City, 16 March 2012 (VIS) - The Holy Father today received in audience:
- Cardinal Ennio Antonelli, president of the Pontifical Council for the Family.
- His Beatitude Sviatoslav Shevchuk, major archbishop of Kyiv-Halyc, Ukraine.
- Thirteen prelates of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, on their "ad limina" visit:
- Archbishop Gustavo Garcia-Siller M.Sp.S. of San Antonio, accompanied by Auxiliary Bishop Oscar Cantu.
- Bishop Patrick James Zurek of Amarillo.
- Bishop Kevin Joseph Farrell of Dallas, accompanied by Auxiliary Bishops John Douglas Deshotel and Mark Joseph Seitz.
- Bishop Kevin William Vann of Fort Worth.
- Bishop James Anthony Tamayo of Laredo.
- Bishop Placido Rodriguez C.M.F. of Lubbock.
- Bishop Michael David Pfeifer O.M.I. of San Angelo.
- Archbishop Paul Stagg Coakley of Oklahoma City.
- Bishop Anthony Basil Taylor of Little Rock.
- Bishop Edward James Slattery of Tulsa.
- Manuel Tomas Fernandes Pereira, ambassador of Portugal, on his farewell visit.
This evening he is scheduled to receive in audience Cardinal William Joseph Levada, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
Comments
ANIVERSARY OF THE DENIAL OF THE FAITH BY THE MAGISTERIUM ? http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/aniversary-of-denial-of-faith-by.html
ANIVERSARY OF THE DENIAL OF THE FAITH BY THE MAGISTERIUM ?
If a Catholic priest, bishop or cardinal denies a teaching of the Church which must be ‘firmly believed’ he is automatically excommunicated.Cardinal Ratzinger and Cardinal Bertone as President and Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith excommunicated a Sri Lankan OMI priest for denying the Immaculate Conception o f Our Lady.
Pope Benedict XVI in Light of the World-Conversations with Peter Seewald says Jews do not have to convert in the present times. Pope Benedict XVI says that he has revised the ancient liturgy (on Good Friday) so that it does not say that Jews need to convert in the present times but that they will convert in a future time (eschatological time).
So he is saying that he has revised the Good Friday Prayer for the Conversion of the Jews which now says Jews do not have to convert in the present times.(1) This is a rejection of the Nicene Creed in which we pray “I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sin”.Jews do need the baptism of water in the present time.
The pope is saying that without the baptism of water given to adults with Catholic Faith, Jews in general, are saved in their religion.
Vatican Council II mentions the possibility of non Catholics being saved in invincible ignorance, a good conscience etc. It does not state that they are saved in general in their religion. Since in general the normal means of salvation is Catholic Faith and the baptism of water.(AG 7).
The Vatican recieved a threat from the Chief Rabbinate and the Goverment of Israel over the issue of the Good Friday Prayer for the Conversion of Jews it was reported in the secular newspapers here.There was the threat of war. The pope diffused the tension with a front page report in the L’Osservatore Romano in which it was said that Jews do not have to convert in the present time.
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This message was repeated in Light of the World-Conversations with Peter Seewald (Ignatius Press). The pope told Seewald that there is only one means of salvation and all who are saved are saved through Jesus.True. However this can also be a partial truth and denial of a defined dogma offensive to the Jewish Left.Offensive to the pro-Sodom and Gomorrah Zionists posing as Jews.Yes all those who are saved are saved through Jesus and the Church, Jesus' Mystical Body, however every one needs to enter the Church with the baptism of water and Catholic Faith (Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II, dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus,Dominus Iesus 20 etc).
The pope and his Curia have put away the defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus which Pope Pius XII called an ‘infallible teaching’.
In the same book the pope mentioned an exception to the prohibited use of condoms, an issue already being supported before by the liberal English bishops.The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) issued a clarification saying that in general the Church has not changed its teaching on condoms. The CDF never issued a clarification to the popes comments on the Jews in that same book.
1.Do Jews do not need to convert in the present times to avoid Hell?The pope says no. The CDF says nothing.
2.Do all Jews need to enter the Church with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation?(AG 7 etc).The pope says no. The CDF says nothing.
3.Do all Jews need to convert into the Church for salvation ?(Cantate Domino, Council of Florence. Defined dogma).The pope says no. The CDF is silent.
The Bible says Jews need to convert. The pope says...
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The Jewish Anti Defamation League(ADL) claims the Church has changed its teaching regarding Jews and Judaism.This claim is made in the ADL Bearing Witness education program for Catholic schools.The CDF ignores it. The USCCB implements the ADL program in Catholic schools.
The secular newspapers imply that those who are saved in invincible ignorance, a good conscience (LG 16) etc are known exceptions to the dogma ( and to Vatican Council II, AG 7). The Magisterium is silent.
Vatican Council II in reality says Jews need to convert for salvation.The Society of St.Pius X in reality accepts this teaching and interpretation of Vatican Council II. The SSPX is condemned.They are condemned for rejecting the Jewish Left interpretation of Vatican Council II. The Magisterium will not state like Vatican Council II,Ad Gentes 7 that Jews need to convert.The Magisterium will not affirm the Catholic Faith.
Do we pray or do we not pray for the Conversion of the Jews? At the Good Friday Service I attended today afternoon they did not mention that Jews need to convert into the Church. There was a vague mention, a hope, that Jews will know the fullness of Redemption in Jesus Christ.
The popes says they are saved in the present times.Now if the SSPX does not say the same thing they soon could be excommunicated according to the March 16 Vatican statement.
In the name of ecumenism and the one world religion the Catholic Teaching Authority could be told to excommunicate the SSPX if they do not accept the prevailing heresy. Once this is done the enemies of the Church will demand even more. The Vatican could be told to give up devotion to Our Lady and say the Mass is not a Sacrifice.
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The pope has already said that in the case of the Brazilian girl there was an exception to abortion.(Cardinal Bertone and Mnsgr.Fisichella said they were instructed by the pope).The CDF issued a general statement saying there was no change in the church’s teaching on abortion.Obviously the Yes and NO position on Limbo was also useful for the media.
In the rejection of a defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus , Vatican Council II and the Nicene Creed the pope and his Curia stand automatically excommunicated according to the teachings of the Church always upheld by them.What would be the credibility in excommunicating the SSPX bishops for denying the Jewish Left version of Vatican Council II when they themself deny in public teachings which merit excommunication?
How can they excommunicate the SSPX for denying the Jewish Left version of Vatican Council II which claims Jews do not have to convert into the Catholic Church ?
I am not a member of the SSPX and I attend Mass in Italian.The Traditional Latin Mass is not available for me in the area where I live.Neither is it available in the evenings daily in the centre of Rome.I reject Vatican Council II as interpreted by the ADL and its allies.I accept Vatican Council II as a continuation of Tradition and in accord with the literal interpretation of the defined
dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.i.e the Catholic Church says Jews need to convert for salvation (Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II) and Catholics are the Chosen people of God, the ‘new people of God’(Nostra Aetate 4, Vatican Council II).
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SAD HISTORY
On Sept 22,2009 Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco,President of the Italian Catholic Bishops Conference (CEI) before two Jewish rabbis gave into pressure by them and issued a CEI directive which said that Jews do not have to convert in the present times.The Cardinal stated that he had the support of the Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Bertone and the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI. There has been no contradiction from the Vatican.
Cardinal Bertone also had called the attention of the Chief Rabbinate of Israel to a front page article in the L'Osservatore Romano written by Cardinal Walter Kaspar in which he stated Jews do not have to convert in the present time.The cardinal issued the statement on Sept.22,2009 .It was reported in the daily Avvenire, on Sept.23, 2009 the feast day of Padre Pio.
Father Tullio Rotondo an Italian diocesan priest in a an e-mail message to me said that the cardinal’s statement was contary to the Bible in which all Jews are called to conversion.Fr.Rotondo said that Jesus had called all people to convert, especially the Jews. Jesus had sent His Apostles to convert all people.Fr.Rotondo referred to Bible passages Matt.3:2.Matt.4:17,Matt.11:20, Matt.12:41,Matt.13:15,Matt 18:3,Mark 1:15,Marck 4:12, Mark 6:12,Luk 5:32, Luke 10:30,Luke 11:32,Luk 13:3,Luke 13:5,Luke 15:7,Luke 15:10,John 12:40,Acts 3:26,9:35,Acts.20:21,Acts.26:20,Acts.28:27,2 Tim.2:25.
The above Biblical quotations Fr.Tullio Rotondo said help us understand that first and foremost the Jews need to convert and then the others. It makes us understand that we must preach for the conversion of the Jews and we must pray and appeal to the saints for this conversion.
We pray also for the conversion of the cardinals, he said, who say things that appear scandalous and contrary to the Sacred Faith. Don Tullio said that he is praying also that the Holy Father intervenes.Don Tullio said that we must fight also in the Church of God, for the Truth.
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Pope Benedict XVI tells Seewad that he revised the Good Friday Prayer ‘in such a way that it contained our faith, that Christ is salvation for all.’ (This of course does not say that all Jews are on the path to Hell unless they convert as the Church has taught for centuries. This was the one way of salvation) The pope says ‘that there do not exist two ways of salvation’( The pope indicates there is only one way of salvation and Jews are saved in general through this one way; Christ and the Church, and so they do not have to convert. Catholic priests have pointed out that we do not know any case of a non Catholic saved by Jesus and the Church. There is no case of implicit salvation which is explicit for us. The dogma says everyone needs to be an explicit member of the Church. So the pope’s one way of salvation is a strawman) The pope continues ‘and that therefore Christ is also the saviour of the Jews, and not only of the pagans ‘(Christ is the Saviour of the Jews and pagans and they are saved, even if they do not enter the Catholic Church? Pope John Paul II’s Dominus Iesus n.20 says Jesus has died for all but to receive this salvation they need to enter the Church. The Catechism of the Catholic Church 846 says that the Church is like a door in which all need to enter, Ad Gentes 7 says all need baptism for salvation).
The front page article (April 10, 2008) in the L’Osservatore Romano was written by Cardinal Walter Kaspar.It was presented to the Chief Rabbinate of Israel by Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, Vatican Secretary of State. It was approved by the Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI.
The article said that Vatican Council II indicated that non Catholics can be saved. So Cardinal Kaspar concluded that Jews do not have to convert in the present times.
Cardinal William Levada, Prefect of the Congregation for Doctrine and Faith, Vatican never issued a clarification on Sept 22,2009 when Cardinal Angelo Bagnasco quoted Cardinal Bertone saying that the Revised Good Friday Prayer was not for the conversion of the Jews and Jews do not have to convert.
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The Revised Prayer for the Conversion of the Jews was not for the conversion of present day Jews the daily newspaper of the Italian Bishops Conference Avvenire reported (' Gironata ebraico-cristiana riprende la celebrazione commune Bagnasco ai rabbinic Laras e Di Segni : diamo nuovo slancio al dialogo di Lorenzo Rosoli p. 8, Chiesa).
1. Pope Benedict approved the article written on the front page of the L’Osservatore Romano by Cardinal Kaspar and sent to the Chief Rabbinate of Israel. The message was Jews do not have to convert in the present times. Also it was alleged that this was taught in Vatican Council II.
2. Pope Benedict approved the meeting of Cardinal Bagnasco with the two Rabbis when Bagnasco issued a directive of the Conference of Catholic Bishops saying that Jews do not have to convert in the present times. Bagnasco claimed that it had the support of the Pope.
3. The pope approved Cardinal Bertone’s claim to the Chief Rabbinate through a Letter, public, that we Catholics had a belief in Jesus. (That was about all). And that the Chief Rabbinate had read the article by Cardinal Kaspar which said Jews do not have to convert in the present times.
This new teaching was been given to us after protests were made by the Chief Rabbinate of Israel and the Jewish Left. Dialogue with the Vatican was suspended. The issue was the Good Friday Prayer for the Conversion of Jews.
Pope Benedict XVI is my pope and I pray for him. I would not dare to make any comments on his personality or character. I try to restrict myself to theology and doctrine.We need to be united with him during these times.It is possible that he can change the present errors .- Lionel Andrades
1.
I modified it in such a way that… one did not pray directly for the conversion of the Jews…but that the Lord might hasten the historic hour in which we will all be united.-Light of the World-Conversations with Peter Seewald (Ignatius) p.107
MEDIA DISINFORMATION ON CATHOLIC TEACHINGS THE SSPX AND VATICAN COUNCIL II
Padre Giovanni is the responsible Jesuit priest at the Jesuit Astali Refugee Centre in Rome. They have a battery of lawyers who assist refugees, including those who have been rejected for political asylum.
At times it seems the Jesuit legal system is there for only leftist social injustice issues.
See the leftist media propaganda against the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) and Vatican Council II in particular and Catholic teachings in general.
Could not some of those lawyers advocate honesty in newspaper reporting about Catholics?
There are so many claims of anti Semitism. What about anti Catholicism by institutions and media of the Jewish Left, like the ADL.
The ADL and the mainstream media in Italy repeat that the SSPX teaches that Jews need to convert for salvation and this is contrary to the ‘reforms’ of Vatican Council II. Then they repeat that the Catholic Church teaches that Jews are still the Chosen People of God.
They will never mention that Vatican Council II indicates that Jews need to convert into the Catholic Church to avoid Hell (for salvation) and Catholics are the ‘new people of God’.(AG 7,NA 4).
Couldn’t the Jesuit lawyers point this out to the media?
This is disinformation about Catholic teachings and it is ‘hate’ specifically against the SSPX.
The SSPX is affirming Traditional Catholic teaching and Vatican Council II when it says Jews need to convert for salvation.
Then the secular liberal media says that now the Church teaches that there is salvation outside the Church since a non Catholic can be saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire (LG 16).
Commonsense tells us that we do not know any case of a non Catholic saved in invincible ignorance or the baptism of desire. So how can it be an explicit exception to AG 7 which says all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation?
How can it be an exception to the defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus (Cantate Domino)?
These are the falsehoods being repeated by the print media and television in Italy and it is not being checked legally.
The Vatican cannot be expected to make the clarification since they are under political pressure from Rabbi Rosen, the Chief Rabbinate of Israel and the ADL and their supporters. So they have to keep silent.
Could a legal aide of the Astali Centre or another Catholic organization check the misinformation in the media point by point?
If the misinformation about the Catholic Faith is the political opinion of the Jewish Left it should be said so and it should not be claimed that this is the teaching of Vatican Council II.
-Lionel Andrades.
ADL WEBSITE EXPRESSES HATE AGAINST THE SSPX BUT NOT VATICAN COUNCIL II WHICH HAS THE SAME MESSAGE AS ‘THE LEFEBVRISTS’
A few reports on the Jewish Anti Defamation League (ADL) website are critical of the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) for saying Jews need to convert but these reports do not criticize Vatican Council II which also has the same message. (AG 7, NA 4).
The SSPX rejects the ADL interpretation of Vatican Council II, which really is a political position, with no supporting texts from the Council. The ADL cannot provide any references.The ADL keeps repeating that the SSPX opposes ecumenism and the ‘reforms’ of Vatican Council II. The ADL never mentions that Vatican Council II says Jews need to convert for salvation and Catholics are the new people of God (AG 7, NA 4). This is the actual SSPX message and the teaching of the Catholic Church magisterium including that of Pope John Paul II.
Vatican Council II has the same message as ‘the Lefebvrists’ on ecumenism and inter religious dialogue.
The SSPX opposes the ADL interpretation of Vatican Council II which the Jewish Left is imposing on the Vatican with political and military threats.
Imagine the world wide political storm the SSPX could cause if they announced that they accept Vatican Council II interpreted according to Catholic Tradition and the salvation dogma.
Since, Vatican Council II affirms the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Fr. Leonard Feeney was not excommunicated for heresy and even if he was, Vatican Council II is in agreement with the literal interpretation of the dogma. While Lumen Gentium 16 (invincible ignorance, a good conscience) are not explicit, known exceptions. They do not contradict AG 7.
Assuming the Holy Office 1949 excommunicated Fr. Leonard Feeney for saying that the baptism of desire was not an exception to the dogma, then it was an objective error on their part. Also the ordinary magisterium of Pope Pius XII cannot over rule a defined dogma or Vatican Council II in accord with that dogma which has a bearing on ecumenism and relations with non Catholics. (Cantate Domino, Council of Florence).The Letter of the Holy Office instead referred to 'the dogma', the 'infallible' teaching. The dogma indicates all Jews in Boston need to convert to avoid the fires of Hell.(Cantate Domino).
Vatican Council II like Cantate Domino, also says all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation (to avoid Hell) (AG 7). So for the ADL this interpretation of Vatican Council II would be anti-Semitic.
The SSPX simply says that they reject Vatican Council II (ADL version) and Jews need to convert for salvation. They maintain Catholics are the Chosen People of God, Christ is King of the Universe and His Social Reign must extend to all socialist and secular institutions now controlled by the Jewish Left and others.
The Vatican is now threatening the SSPX with excommunication if they do not accept the ADL version of Vatican Council II and the pro abortion, homosexuality,ADL -approved values for the Catholic Church.
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SSPX COMMUNIQUE NEEDED
The SSPX needs to issue a public statement which says, more or less:-
‘In response to the Communiqué of the Vatican (March 16, 2012) and earlier statements of Pope Benedict XVI on Vatican Council II not being a break from Tradition, we wish to explore the possibility of accepting Vatican Council II in accord with the salvation dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. We will hold conferences at the SSPX District Superior level in which members of the Pontifical Institutions will be invited to clarify the doctrinal interpretation of Vatican Council II accepted by the SSPX and to publically know the position of the Vatican, especially with regard to ecumenism, inter religious dialogue, religious liberty and salvation.
'We hope to clarify if Vatican Council II rejects the theology of religions of the Vatican International Theological Commission.
'Catholic Novus Ordo priests in Rome have reportedly said that we do not know any non Catholic saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire. So there may be nothing in Vatican Council II which opposes the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and the SSPX position that all Jews and other non Catholics need to convert for salvation.
'The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is also welcome to clarify immediately or when possible the following points:-
1. We do not know any one saved in invincible ignorance, a good conscience, seeds of the Word, imperfect communion, elements of sanctification etc among non Catholics ?
2. So Lumen Gentium 16 (invincible ignorance, good conscience) is not referring to an explicit exception to Ad Gentes 7 and the defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus ?
3. So Ad Gentes 7 and the dogma outside the Church no salvation indicate that all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation and there are no known exceptions on earth ?
4. So Vatican Council II is saying that Jews,Muslims ( and other non Christians) and Protestants and Orthodox Christians (and other non Catholics) need Catholic Faith for salvation (to avoid Hell) ?
5. Since Vatican Council II indicates that all non Catholics are oriented to Hell there cannot be a theology of religions according to Vatican Council II ?’
The SSPX could accept Vatican Council II as a continuation of Tradition with respect to the salvation dogma and the other issues of Vatican Council II could be debated later.
-Lionel Andrades
The Society of St. Pius X: Mired in Anti-Semitism
http://www.adl.org/main_Interfaith/Society_Saint_Pius_X.htm?Multi_page_sections=sHeading_2
VATICAN CURIA EXPECTS SSPX TO ACCEPT HERESY AND ONE PARTICULAR INTERPRETATION OF VATICAN COUNCIL II
Jewish Left groups claim Catholic – Jewish relations have been good since the last 43 years and the creation of Israel.
The Vatican Curia does not want the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX) to accept Vatican Council II –period.They want the SSPX to rubber stamp the Jewish Left version of the Council which the Vatican itself is forced to accept.
Vatican Council II says Jews need to convert for salvation with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water-so does the SSPX.
Vatican Council II says Catholics are the Chosen people of God-so does the SSPX.
The Jewish Anti Defamation League (ADL) which tells Catholics what to believe and what is approved by the Chief Rabbinate of Israel claims Vatican Council II says Jews do not need to convert. False.There is no such text in Vatican Council II.
What the ADL means is that Nostra Aetate says we must respect the Jews and so out of respect we should not seek their conversion or speak the truth about Vatican Council II.
The ADL and the Foreign Minister of Israel have said that Vatican Council II says Jews are the Chosen People.
False. Jews were the Chosen People according to the Bible, the Chosen People are now those who have accepted the Jewish Messiah and the Church He founded. Vatican Council II says the Church is 'the new people of God.' (Nostra Aetate 4).
So which intepretation has the SSPX to accept ? The Curia would agree that there are two interpretations of Vatican Council II ?!
The SSPX agree with the second interpretation of Vatican Council II which is also supported by text from the Council. The SSPX rejects the Jewish Left version of Vatican Council II. If the Curia allowed the SSPX to accept Vatican Council II in accord with Tradition there would be a political storm and opposition from pro-Israel Jewish groups.
In the open letter to the SSPX, Mnsgr.Nicola Bux mentioned that the doctrinal issue on which there was not unity was ecumenism and inter religious dialogue. There is disunity because the Vatican Curia has changed the doctrinal teachings of the Catholic Church and are pretending that this is part of the text of Vatican Council II. Vatican Council II is in accord with other Church-documents and Tradition according to the text of the Council.
It is heresy to say that Jews do not need to convert. It is contrary to the Bible and the teachings of Jesus. It is contrary to the defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. It contradicts Vatican Council II (AG 7) and the Catechism of the Catholic Church 845,846 which says all need to enter the Church as through a door, the Church is the only Ark of Noah that saves in the Flood and God wants all people to be united in the Catholic Church.
This is heresy and the Curia is also contradicting Vatican Council I, the Council of Trent and other Catechisms
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Here are the two interpretations:
Interpretation 1: Vatican Council II says non Catholics do not have to convert in general for salvation. (LG 16).
Interpretation II: Vatican Council II says non Catholics need to convert in general for salvation (Ad Gentes 7, LG 14).
Interpretation II is the traditional teaching which the SSPX also endorses.
So the SSPX accepts Vatican Council II?
If the SSPX accepts Interpretation 2 then the Vatican spokesman needs to clarify it in public.
Interpretation 1: Vatican Council II says those saved in invincible ignorance, a good conscience, the seeds of the word are EXPLICIT EXCEPTIONS to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and to Ad Gentes 7 i.e all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation.
Interpretation 2: Vatican Council II says those saved in invincible ignorance etc are possibilities known only toGod. There are no explicit, known-to- us exceptions to Ad Gentes 7 and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.So there is no contradiction in Vatican Council II to Ad Gentes 7.
-Lionel Andrades
It’s time for cardinal, bishops and traditional religious groups to say openly that they accept Vatican Council II and reject the Jewish Left interpretation of the Council.
For instance on the subject of other religions, why do we have to accept new doctrine which is not even there in Vatican Council II?
They could clarify the issue point by point .Begin with the subject of ‘other religions’.
Interpretation 1: Vatican Council II says non Catholics do not have to convert in general for salvation. (LG 16).
Interpretation II: Vatican Council II says non Catholics need to convert in general for salvation (Ad Gentes 7, LG 14).
Interpretation II is the traditional teaching which the SSPX also endorses.
So the SSPX accepts Vatican Council II?
If the SSPX accepts Interpretation 2 then clarify it in public.
Interpretation 1. Vatican Council II says those saved in invincible ignorance, a good conscience, the seeds of the word are EXPLICIT EXCEPTIONS to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and to Ad Gentes 7 i.e all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation.
Interpretation 2: Vatican Council II says those saved in invincible ignorance etc are possibilities known to only God. There are no explicit exceptions to Ad Gentes 7 and the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
Call a Press Conference and clarify this issue or hold a conference and discuss the issue in public.
The doctrinal talks were held in secret. This is all just like a secret society, the Freemasons.
Cardinal Donald Wuerl and the US bishops give the Eucharist to pro abortion politicians, homosexuals and lesbians. Cardinal Wuerl was made a cardinal. The SSPX rejects Cardinal Sean O Malley and the ADL‘s interpretation of Vatican Council II and they are threatened in public with a second excommunication.
It’s time for cardinal, bishops and religious communities to openly say that they accept Vatican Council II and reject the Jewish Left interpretation of the Council: they affirm the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus in accord with Vatican Council II (AG 7,LG 14)
Affirm Lumen Gentium 16 (invincible ignorance) as a possibility known only to God so it is not in conflict with the dogma or the literal interpretation of outside the church no salvation.
Since LG 16 is not explicitly known Vatican Council II affirms the literal interpretation of the defined dogma.
This is also the interpretation of all the Catechisms, including the present one, Vatican Council I and II, the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 ( it refers to ‘the dogma’) other magisterial documents and Fr. Leonard Feeney of Boston who was not excommunicated for heresy.He was not excommunicated for saying the same thing as Vatican Council II and the dogma.
It is time to give a testimony of the Faith in public and affirm Vatican Council II, we accept Tradition ,we reject the Jewish Left version of the our Catholic Faith. Lionel Andrades
New magisterium could excommunicate SSPX for denying Vatican Council II when they say Jews need to convert and Catholics are the Chosen People of God.
The pope was forced to say that Bishop Richard Williamson had to accept the six million Holocaust figure, even though initially the Vatican spokesman said the bishop was free to have an opinion. Probably this was the initial view of Pope Benedict.
Then after worldwide political pressure he had to announce that the Good Friday Prayer for the Conversion of the Jews was not for their conversion. Then he said that Jews do not have to convert in the present time.
Now he is being forced to excommunicate the Society of St.Pius X (SSPX).
Years back he did away with the defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus. Neither did he correct the error of the Archbishop of Boston on invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire.
Vatican Council II unlike the ADL- magisterium for the Catholic Church says Catholics are ‘the new people of God’(Nostra Aetate 4) and that Jews and other non Catholics need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water to avoid Hell(for salvation).(Ad Gentes 7).
The ADL magisterium wants the SSPX excommunicated and the Vatican has issued a statement indicating just that.
What an age we live in! The pope says that Jews do not have to convert in the present times, a Catholic bishop cannot say that 5,999,999 or less people died in the terrible holocaust and the SSPX can be excommunicated for saying Jews need to convert and that Catholics are the Chosen People of God, according to Vatican Council II.
The new magisterium could excommunicate the SSPX for denying Vatican Council II when they say Jews need to convert for salvation and Catholics are the new people of God.
The SSPX has to state in public that they accept a Vatican Council II which says Jews do not have to convert and that Jews are the Chosen People of God even though there is no text in Vatican Council II which makes this claim.
Unless the SSPX accepts this Jewish Left version of Vatican Council II they are likely to be excommunicated by the magisterium this month, with the approval of the ADL and the Chief Rabbinate of Israel.-Lionel Andrades
IF THE SSPX SAYS THEY ACCEPT VATICAN COUNCIL II IN ACCORD WITH THE DOGMA EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS THERE WILL BE A STORM
The Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith could have to deny Vatican Council II and the Jewish Left could call the Council anti - Semitic.
One of the District Superiors of the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) could issue a statement observing that it is reported on blogs that the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus is in accord with Vatican Council II (AG 7).
All need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation (AG 7) and there are no exceptions. There are no known exceptions since those saved in invincible ignorance or with a good conscience (LG 16) etc are known only to God. So they do not contradict the centuries-old literal interpretation of the thrice defined dogma.
So in this sense Vatican Council II is saying outside the church there is no salvation and Jews, Muslims and other non Catholics (Protestants and Orthodox Christians) need to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation ( to avoid Hell).
So the SSPX could welcome Vatican Council II’s position on ecumenism and inter religious dialogue.
All non Catholics are oriented to Hell (AG 7). We do not compel them; we do not force them to enter the Church. We do not have the power to do so. However we do have the religious liberty to tell them that Vatican Council II says they need to convert into the Church, all of them with no known exceptions, to avoid Hell (for salvation).
Imagine the world wide storm this would cause. The SSPX affirming Vatican Council II in this case in accord with the salvation dogma!
But what about Fr. Leonard Feeney?!So what? Whatever be your position on Fr. Leonard Feeney, Vatican Council II still affirms the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
He was excommunicated for holding the literal interpretation? No Magisterial text, including the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 states that he was excommunicated for heresy. And assuming he was - Vatican Council II is still in agreement with the traditional literal interpretation of the dogma.
And if he was excommunicated for heresy, for saying there was no baptism of desire or exception to the dogma, then the cardinals who wrote the Letter of the Holy Office 1949 or Pope Pius XII, made an objective, common sense mistake: the baptism of desire is not known so it cannot be an explicit, exception to the dogma which says everyone needs to convert into the Church. We do not know any one saved with the baptism of desire.
How can the ordinary magisterium of the pope, Pope Pius XII, negate Vatican Council II or the dogma which Pope Pius XII himself called an ‘infallible statement’(Letter of the Holy Office 1949).
All the same Vatican Council II affirms the literal interpretation of the dogma, the infallible statement.
According to the Vatican statement,(March 16) there is the possibility of the SSPX being excommunicated unless they affirm Vatican Council II. The statement has not mentioned the interpretation of Vatican Council II expected. The Vatican kept the doctrinal talks secret.So the SSPX could ‘try the waters out’ affirm the dogma (as they are doing so already) and welcome Vatican Council II as being in agreement with the dogma. Then wait for the Vatican’s response.
This will create a political storm and shake the Establishment which tells the pope what he should believe as a Catholic and what is acceptable to them.-Lionel Andrades
VATICAN COUNCIL II SAYS JEWS NEED TO CONVERT, CATHOLICS ARE THE NEW PEOPLE OF GOD BUT REPORT ON SSPX CLAIMS VATICAN COUNCIL II SAYS OTHERWISE
An Associated Press report,Vatican to breakaway traditionalists: not enough by Frances D'Emilio (VCstar.com)says the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) 'has opposed the Vatican's decades-long outreach to Jews, Muslims and members of other faith. More broadly, it opposes the liberalizing reforms the Vatican enacted in the 1960s.'
However a reading of Vatican Council II’s Nostra Aetate 4 says ‘the Church is the new people of God’.Catholics are the new people of God . The Chosen People.Then Vatican Council II further says that all people, Jews included, need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation (Ad Gentes 7). Jews need to enter the Church with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water to avoid Hell (for salvation).
So Vatican Council II is still saying like the SSPX that Jews, Muslims and other non Catholics, including Protestants and Orthodox Christians, need to enter the Catholic Church for salvation.
So the so called liberalizing reforms is not supported by any text from Vatican Council II.
Vatican Council II also mentions that there can be non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance, with a good consicence (LG 16), with the ‘seeds of the Word’ etc. We accept this as a possibility just as did the popes and Church Councils of the past. They knew that we do not know any particular case. So they are not an explicit, exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus or to Ad Gentes 7 and Lumen Gentium 14, Vatican Council II.
Vatican Council II is in accord with the literal interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus .
Vatican Council II has not changed the teaching of the Catholic Church with respect to other religions as this report on the internet alleges.
The AP report says ‘Jewish groups have expressed concern that the Vatican's overture to the breakaway Catholics could call into question 50 years of progress in Catholic-Jewish relations.’ It is the Jewish Left political position that Vatican Council II has changed church-teaching. They are unable to cite any reference from Vatican Council II.
The report states: ‘A Vatican statement, issued after Friday's meeting, said both Benedict, and Levada's office, studied the Society's response to the papal overture. But the response, delivered to the Vatican in January, "is not sufficient to overcome the doctrinal problems that are at the foundation of the fracture between the Holy See and the Society."
The Vatican has never announced that Vatican Council II states that Catholics are the new people of God and that Jews need to convert to avoid Hell, according to Vatican Council II. Instead the Vatican is building up a reputation of throwing away Catholic doctrine for the sake of peace and security.
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The report says ‘the statement didn't elaborate on what failed to satisfy the Vatican's conditions.’ The Vatican has held secret talks with the SSPX however two of the negotiators during those talks, have expressed Catholic doctrine in papers of the International Theological Commission. They are available on the ITC website.They allege that those saved with the baptism of water and in invincible ignorance are known to us and so they are explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and Ad Gentes 7. This is heresy. It is a rejection of the Nicene Creed in which we say “I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sin”. The ITC is saying that in some cases, rare cases, known to them there are non Catholics saved with the baptism of desire and in invincible ignorance and without the baptism of water. How do they know these cases it is not elaborated. However the bottom line for the ITC and the Vatican is that there is salvation outside the church in the present times,even though they do not know any exception to the dogma or Vatican Council II.
This is a new doctrine and irrational. Hence it is understandable that the Vatican has not elaborated on the precise doctrinal difference and has kept the issue secret.
The report said ‘Because of "worry about avoiding a church rupture with painful and incalculable consequences," Fellow was invited to "clarify his position with the aim of closing the existing fracture, as hoped for by Pope Benedict XVI," said the Vatican statement.’
The SSPX could be excommunicated for not accepting the Jewish Left approved version of Vatican Council II, denying the actual text of Vatican Council II which says Jews need to convert and Catholics are the Chosen people, and not accepting heresy and new doctrines, approved by the Vatican.-Lionel Andrades
http://www.vcstar.com/news/2012/mar/16/bc-eu--vatican-traditionalists-1st-ld-vatican-to/#ixzz1qs1QX2kd
NO NEED FOR ‘SECRET TALKS’ ANYMORE: WE KNOW THE HERETICAL POSITION OF THE VATICAN NEGOTIATORS
The International Theological Commission theological papers expose the cardinal and bishop’s teaching on visible baptism of desire and their rejection of the dogma and Vatican Council II text.
May be its unintentional heresy. Let us give them the benefit of the doubt, but heresy it is.
In the hierarchy of truths we are all obliged to believe in the Creed. In the Nicene Creed we pray ‘I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sin.’ It means the baptism of water is needed for all. All means no known exceptions in the present time.This teaching is expressed in the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and it comes from Jesus’ teaching (John 3:5, Mk.15:15-16).
Perhaps as an oversight , two of the members of the Vatican team who participated in the discussion with the SSPX representatives, believe invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are explicit, known,defacto exceptions to the dogma and the Nicene Creed. They believe they are explicit exceptions to the need of the baptism of water being needed for salvation for all.We know that the Catholic Church gives the baptism of water to adults with Catholic Faith.The Vatican team is saying that not all adults need the baptism of water since there are some who are saved or will be saved in invincible ignorance etc. Irrational ? However this is their official position on the ITC website.
Invincible ignorance etc are exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to the former President International Theologcial Commission (ITC), Cardinal Luis Ladaria S.J and the former Secretary of the ITC, Bishop. Charles Morerod O.P.(former Rector of the Angelicum University,Rome).
They allege that Vatican Council II (LG 16) shows there are known exceptions.Discerning Catholics know that we do not know anyone saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire.This was the error of the Archbishop of Boston Cardinal Richard Cushing and the Jesuits there.
The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 addressed to the Archbishop of Boston does not state that we know cases of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance or an “unconscious yearning” or desire and that these cases are exceptions to the dogma.
However Cadinal Ladaria, Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and past President of the ITC has assumed that being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are explicit, known exceptions to the thrice defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
continued
NO NEED FOR ‘SECRET TALKS’ ANYMORE: WE KNOW THE HERETICAL POSITION OF THE VATICAN NEGOTIATORS
The International Theological Commission theological papers expose the cardinal and bishop’s teaching on visible baptism of desire and their rejection of the dogma and Vatican Council II text.
May be its unintentional heresy. Let us give them the benefit of the doubt, but heresy it is.
In the hierarchy of truths we are all obliged to believe in the Creed. In the Nicene Creed we pray ‘I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sin.’ It means the baptism of water is needed for all. All means no known exceptions in the present time.This teaching is expressed in the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and it comes from Jesus’ teaching (John 3:5, Mk.15:15-16).
Perhaps as an oversight , two of the members of the Vatican team who participated in the discussion with the SSPX representatives, believe invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are explicit, known,defacto exceptions to the dogma and the Nicene Creed. They believe they are explicit exceptions to the need of the baptism of water being needed for salvation for all.We know that the Catholic Church gives the baptism of water to adults with Catholic Faith.The Vatican team is saying that not all adults need the baptism of water since there are some who are saved or will be saved in invincible ignorance etc. Irrational ? However this is their official position on the ITC website.
Invincible ignorance etc are exceptions to the traditional interpretation of the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus according to the former President International Theologcial Commission (ITC), Cardinal Luis Ladaria S.J and the former Secretary of the ITC, Bishop. Charles Morerod O.P.(former Rector of the Angelicum University,Rome).
They allege that Vatican Council II (LG 16) shows there are known exceptions.Discerning Catholics know that we do not know anyone saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire.This was the error of the Archbishop of Boston Cardinal Richard Cushing and the Jesuits there.
The Letter of the Holy Office 1949 addressed to the Archbishop of Boston does not state that we know cases of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance or an “unconscious yearning” or desire and that these cases are exceptions to the dogma.
However Cadinal Ladaria, Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and past President of the ITC has assumed that being saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire are explicit, known exceptions to the thrice defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.
continued
This is an objective, factual error. We do not know any such case .No Vatican magisterial document makes this claim.
It is this error and interpretation of Vatican Council II that the Congergation for the Doctrine of the Faith expected the SSPX team to accept in closed door, secret talks.
The heretical position of two of the Vatican negotiators is now known to us through their writings in the ITC papers and is available on the Vatican website of the ITC.
They may say in public that they accept the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus and also Vatican Council II. However if they assume that invincible ignorance,having a good conscience and the baptism of desire are explicit exceptions to the dogma and Ad Gentes 7 then it is irrational-and also a rejection of the centuries old interpretation of the dogma.
It is the Secretary of the CDF who is rejecting Vatican Council II (AG 7) and he expects the SSPX and all Catholics to endorse his heretical version of Lumen Gentium 16 (invincible ignorance).
It is saying there is salvation outside the church since we allegedly know cases of those saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire.
Whatever be ones position on Fr.Leonard Feeney, mentioned by the ITC, objectively we know there are no known cases of the baptism of desire or persons saved in invincible ignorance.So there cannot be a known exception to the dogma.To claim one knows particular exeptions is heresy. It is also irrational.
A Catholic cannot reject in public an ex cathedra dogma and then also hold the office of a cardinal and bishop as in the case of Cardinal Ladaria and Bishop Morerod.According to Canon Law priests, bishops and cardinals who hold an office in the Church need to accept those teachings which have to be ‘firmly believed’.(Dominus Iesus).
Now it is no more a secret to Catholics that it is the CDF Secretary who needs to affirm Vatican Council II, the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus as it was interpreted for centuries ( and in accord now with Vatican Council II ) and Lumen Gentium 16, not being an explicit exception to the dogma and Ad Gentes 7.
Its unfortunate that the Vatican has annonced that the SSPX has to regularise its canonical status by accepting not just Vatican Council II as an historical event (which the SSPX does) but that they need to accept the heretical interpretation of the Vatican team approved by the CDF for secret talks with the SSPX.-Lionel Andrades
continued
http://eucharistandmission.blogspot.it/2012/04/no-need-for-secret-talks-anymore-we.html
NO CANON LAW OBLIGES THE SSPX TO ACCEPT THE JEWISH LEFT VERSION OF VATICAN COUNCIL II
It’s also heresy to assume that LG 16 contradicts AG 7
According to Cardinal Luis Ladaria S.J, Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Vatican Lumen Gentium 16 is an exception to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.The dogma on exclusive salvation has the same message as Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II. It says all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water for salvation.
For Cardinal Luis Ladaria those saved in invincible ignorance (LG 16) or with an “unconscious yearning” or desire are visible to us.They are known to us and so are explicit exceptions to Ad Gentes 7 and Cantate Domino, Council of Florence. For invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire to be exceptions, they would have to be known and visible to us.
So Cardinal Luis Ladaria’s understanding of Lumen Gentium 16 is that it refers to explicitly known cases of non Catholics saved in invincible ignorance and a good conscience. This is the interpretation of Vatican Council II which the cardinal and the Congergation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) expect the Society of St.Pius X(SSPX) to accept in public.
The SSPX has to affirm this interpretation of Vatican Council II to get its canonical status recognized.
Cardinal Luis Ladaria’s interpretation is approved by the Jewish Left and the newspapers and media they oversee world wide.
However the text of Lumen Gentium 16 does not say that we know persons saved in invincible ignorance or a good conscience.Neither does it state that these cases are explicit exceptions to the dogma.
So Cardinal Ladaria has no supporting text in Vatican Council II. He cannot reference any text which allows him to imply that LG 16 is a defacto, explicit exception to the dogma which teaches there is exclusive salvation in only the Catholic Church. There is also no Vatican Council II text which contradicts Ad Gentes 7.
The SSPX acknowledges Vatican Council II as an historical event, a reality. This should be sufficient.
Catholic priests in Rome, who offer the Novus Ordo Mass and who are not members of the SSPX ,have said that we do not know any case of persons saved in invincible ignorance and the baptism of desire.
continued
So how can the SSPX or any faithful Catholic be expected to accept this strawman version of Vatican Council II approved by Rabbi Rosen, the ADL and the Chief Rabbinate of Israel?
The SSPX must accept an interpretation of Vatican Council II, and in reality they do accept it, which is in agreement with the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus.For centuries this dogma was interpreted as teaching exclusive salvation in only the Catholic Church.
The SSPX can endorse Vatican Council II as a continuation of Tradition, with respect to the salvation dogma. They can note that the cardinal interprets Vatican Council II as a break from Tradition and the salvation dogma.
The SSPX can also ask the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith to tell us in public if all religious communities( Franciscans, Dominicans etc) besides the SSPX, can accept the literal interpretation of the dogma, alongwith Vatican Council II in accord with the dogma and also accept implicit baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance.
Implicit baptism of desire and being saved in invincible ignorance are understood as not being explicit exceptions to the dogma extra ecclesiam nulla saluls or Ad Gentes 7.
So the dogma and Vatican Council II are not opposed to ecumenism, inter religious dialogue and religious liberty as it was traditionally understood in the Church.
The SSPX or some other Catholic religious organisation, could call a Press Conference to explain these points and then to ask the CDF to kindly explain their position.
Most important- do they know of visible cases on earth, of non Catholics, saved in invincible ignorance and with the baptism of desire, a good conscience and ‘seeds of the Word’ (Vatican Council II).
Canon Law does not expect a Catholic to affirm heresy. In this case it is the rejection of the defined dogma extra ecclesiam nulla salus, Vatican Council II (Ad Gentes 7), Dominus Iesus 20, Catechism of the Catholic Church 846 and an exaggeration of Lumen Gentium 16, as being opposed to the dogma and Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II.
-Lionel Andrades